Employee Experience Pioneer Cat Collela-Graham talks Making Change Stick, Successful Team Management Skills, and Reclaiming Your Superpower

Cat Colella Graham didn't just secure the first and only trademark for "employee experience" in 2005 - she built an entire career philosophy around turning uncertainty into opportunity, transforming organizational cultures through the power of strategic communication, and proving that the most fulfilling professional journeys rarely follow a straight line. 

Guest Bio

Cat Colella Graham is an adjunct professor, internal communications consultant and coach, and a recognized trailblazer who secured the first and only trademark for "employee experience" in 2005. Known as a trusted changemaker with a proven track record of driving meaningful transformation through strategic communications, Cat founded the Employee Experience Agency Cheer Partners, which she successfully built and sold to Lippy Taylor Group. She's worked with industry giants including Amazon Alexa, Elastic, Ernst & Young, and Work Human, serving as what she calls "the internal comms nanny" - stepping in to fill critical gaps and deliver immediate value. Cat is also a TED Fellow and translator, bringing global perspectives to everything she creates. Her expertise spans change management, organizational culture, employee engagement, and the intersection of AI and human-centered communication.

Connect with Cat:

• LinkedIn: Cat Colella Graham - https://www.linkedin.com/in/catgraham/

Content Sample:

Cat delivers three game-changing insights that challenge conventional career wisdom:

1. The Patchwork Quilt Philosophy: Cat reimagines career success not as climbing a ladder but as creating a "patchwork quilt of the good you want to put in the universe." 

2. The Manager-Employee Nexus:  Cat reveals that "the smallest unit of culture is between manager and employee." Leadership can proclaim values from the mountaintop, but transformation lives or dies in daily manager interactions. 

3. AI as Your Creative Partner, Not Your Replacement: Cat offers an electrifying perspective on artificial intelligence that goes beyond the typical fear or hype. 

Key Takeaways

[07:00] – Making Change Stick in Organizations Leaders must equip managers with FAQ documents, clear talking points, and permission to communicate "fast and often" with their teams. 

[14:00] – Building Successful Team Cultures High-performing teams share two critical characteristics.

[23:00] – Recognizing When to Leave Cat's experience with a bullying boss taught her an invaluable lesson: not all failures are yours to own. 

[35:00] – The $2.99 Superpower Tool For anyone in career transition, Cat recommends downloading the SY Partners "Superpower Cards" app—a game that identifies your unique professional superpower.

[38:00] – Reframing "Fake It Till You Make It" Cat distinguishes between authentic confidence and false expertise. 

Suggestions:

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Host Information:

This insightful session was hosted by Jolie Downs with Paradigm.

Connect with Jolie:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/joliedowns/

Transcript

Cat Colella Graham 

[00:00:00]

Jolie Downs: Welcome to the Career Wanderlust Podcast, your compass for new career horizons.

Today we are talking with Cat Collela Graham. Cat is an adjunct professor at N-Y-U-L-I-M College and an internal communications consultant and coach. She secured the first and only trademark for employee experience in 2005. I'm very curious, known as a trusted change maker, coach, and speaker with a proven track record of driving meaningful change.

Through the power of communications, Cat continues to teach graduate level project management. She is also the founder of the Employee Experience Agency Cheer Partners, which was acquired after four successful years by Lippy Taylor Group in March, 2021. Absolutely amazing. I'm really excited to learn more.

Cat, thank you for joining us on the Career Wanderlust Podcast. Well, thank you for having me. I'm especially honored to be meeting with you today for sure. Oh, I'm excited to chat with you about your story. You've done quite a bit in your career and I'm, I'm very fascinated about the [00:01:00] couple of the tidbits that we shared in this intro.

But, you know, really quick, just to start off, I'm curious. You know, tell us a little bit about your story. I mean, what, what had to happen to get you where you are today? And what, kind of advice helped you along the way?

Cat Colella: I think that's such a good question for today, for anyone entering the workforce or maybe in career transition, you have to look at your career as a patchwork quilt of the good you wanna put in the universe and what motivates you.

That's really what it's about. So when I started, I graduated undergraduate in a terrible time. It was economically terrible to get a job. If you weren't an accounting major, you weren't getting picked up by anybody. But I really kind of hustled and I got a great job at Bank of Boston, which is now part of Bank of America.

 And I loved it because at the time it was the kind of place where the more you would give, the more you would get. It didn't matter your gender, your race, your creed. It was an incredible place to be. And I had a wonderful mentor, Chris Kotter, who [00:02:00] told me, listen, go for what you want. If you're curious, don't forget.

It's not about the ladder, it's also about the lattice. Yes. Like she was so smart, so smart. I ended up following her to Arthur Anderson as a result. She was so great. I love it. But it was a great place to really sort of absorb and get into absolutely everything. And they had these wonderful programs, including with New England Banking Institute where, you know, if your boss said.

Hey, take some courses. You could say, oh my gosh, I could take a whole slew of courses and take advantage of that for free. So I ended up taking HR management CL courses because I often helped her with reviews. I rose really quickly at Bank of Boston. I really, really loved my time there. And so that was my first taste of hr.

Then she moved to Arthur Anderson. I moved with her in the change management division. She was in a different division, but I moved under Joe Miller, which is now known as Accenture in Truly Management Consultant. So I was the dreaded consultant that would come in and decide who stays, who goes set up a new [00:03:00] organization and piece out.

But it was like a living MBA. Honestly, it was really great stuff. I was there almost five years and I lived off of those miles for another five years. It was so great. Oh, absolutely. Free vacations. Yeah. Yeah, free vacations. It was great, but it really, it taught me a lot about the discipline of change management and what makes change stick and what doesn't.

And what was nice about it was it used to be the old, you, you know, look at an organization and see what is frozen. You unfreeze what is frozen. You make the changes and then you refreeze. But the good thing about Arthur Anderson is they really had us look up off our desk. Look around, like really get expansive about our thinking and say, well, maybe that won't work for this organization.

Mm. Maybe just, maybe we're looking at two units. Maybe they're two commercial paper units in banking that are merging together. Why don't we take the best of each cultures and make something brand new, right? Be and beautiful. It was really, [00:04:00] really encouraging. So after that, I left because I didn't wanna buy into the partnership.

Got my first HR gig with Rubenstein Public Relations, and that sort of led me continually on the way to understanding how people work in an organization, what motivates them. Mm-hmm. What excites them and understanding that not every professional is for every organization. That included myself. I left Rubenstein after a year.

Right. This is very, I. See. Yeah. It's very important message. Absolutely. Really, we need to know what's right, fit for ourselves. I mean, before you keep going, I'm really curious because I, you mentioned that you really got to learn what works and what doesn't and what makes it sticky for change management.

What's, what's like a top one or two things that you would say that make things sticky for change management? The smallest unit of culture is between manager and employee. So the leadership can say all they want. That for example, we're X company, you're joining us. You should be really proud.

Think of any of the large, you know, fortune one hundreds. And the acquired company may feel otherwise. They may feel, well, wait a second, [00:05:00] we had a really good family knit kind of culture. Why do we wanna be a part of that? So ultimately, it's the manager who's gonna give them the reason to believe. So as an internal communications leader, I always say,

start with manager guidance. They need to know what they should say. Give them the FAQ. They need to know how often they should be socializing with their teams and, and really fast and often is, is really the way it should be. So those are some of things that I learned literally all those years ago at what is now known as Accenture, but bring it forward.

Absolutely. You bring it forward. And not all the lessons apply, but many of them do apply still today. Many. So, yes. And so Rubenstein, it wasn't the right fit for you in which you realize. Correct. Now, I'm curious, when you made the change from Rubenstein, did you have something already or did you just, did you, were you just like, you know what, I'm gonna.

I'm just gonna, I'm gonna leave and I'm gonna take the time to look for it. What, what, what was your way? I was headhunted. I was really lucky. Great. That's, so I was headhunted, by [00:06:00] Conan Wolf and Ogilvy and which is now known as Burson, I believe. But actually both are Burson, but

i, I got headhunted and I, I went with a leader, a female leader that I felt was pretty fearless, but would also let me be pretty expansive and not just sort of chair warm in the role of leading hr. And I was there for two and a half years and I, I loved every minute of it. Did some really amazing, amazing stuff.

And it was just when they were acquired by WPP, so I could put my sort of change management hat on. In the reverse, if you will, while I was there, and it was a wonderful time. And continue to really understand again, why certain divisions performed better than others, right? Did they have better resources?

Were there better managers? Did they meet more frequently? Did they rotate? Who led the weekly meetings? Like what were the things that made these, these key differences? Did you find things that float to the top that were similar across the board? I would say yes. So, making sure that everyone has a space to fail is [00:07:00] super important.

So come up with that idea. Give a safe, like psychological safety is so important because you never know where that great idea is going to come from. Right? Um, so that's definitely number one. Number two is rotating who leads the meetings. Give your junior person a chance to come up with the agenda or you know, go around the room and maybe try a new idea to brainstorm.

And that's super key too. So I think those are the two that stand out most for me in terms of teams being successful. Team, I love all those in teams. Norming. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. You know, and I think managers back in the day perhaps were a little more hierarchical, and today we're seeing something that I really appreciate where managers are really shoulder to shoulder with their teams.

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. They're not asking you to stay till six o'clock, seven o'clock, eight o'clock at night when they're leaving at three 30 to go to the gym. They're actually in it with you. And I think that's a really positive change that we've seen. Agree. Um, it's a [00:08:00] really important change and it's, it, it needs to happen to keep, to keep your best talent really.

It's absolutely, it's, it's a new expectation. It really is. Yeah. It really is. And, and I was lucky to work with some really great people there. In fact, one of them, Catherine Metcalf, who went on to be the very first female Fortune 10 Chief Communications officer, and still, she's still a very, very good friend of mine.

She was just out two weeks ago. She actually allowed me to be billable. This is what she did. She said, we're gonna start you as an A a E cat. Even though I was the S-A-P-S-V-P Global head of People. Mm-hmm. Didn't matter. She's like, 'cause you don't understand why employees are coming to you and saying, I've been an AE for a year.

Why aren't I an SAE? She says, if you put in the work, you'll understand what it takes. Oh, I love this. It was so humbling. But it really taught me everything. I mean, 10% of my time was now billable and Right. I was an AAE and the, the, my colleagues are looking at me like, um, aren't you the HR lady? So it was, but it [00:09:00] was, it was so, it was fantastic of her to do and it really taught me so much, not just about communications as a whole.

But about what it really takes to succeed at each level, which is not time served. Everyone has their own clock and And that's something really important to honor. Um, and what a difference though, just understanding, right. I mean, having, yeah. Being, being in the shoes and getting that perspective of true understanding.

I can only imagine how powerful that made you as the HR leader, you know? Yeah. Moving forward. It really did. Yeah. You're absolutely spot on. I'm curious, do you, do you continue to do things like that, like trying to

I do. I always try to stretch myself. Yourself, yeah. So, um, you know, sort of fast forward if you will, I joined Rooter Finn.

I was at Clever Devices, which was a software development company as, as head of people. But at Ruder Finn, I was able to start the first internal communications practice, which was actually the first one in the us. Amazing. 'cause I could see how at the [00:10:00] time there were lots of pharmas buying different pieces, r and d or whatever, and they were really struggling with their bolt-on acquisitions to make people feel like they are part of the whole Right.

And not just a satellite. So it was a really cool opportunity. I was very lucky to have Kathy Bloom Garden as a CEO. That's why I was at Ruder Finn for so many times. I mean, I was there. First Tour of duty, dial a Cat, rent a Cat, second tour of duty, cumulatively 13 years. I was with Ritter Finn because she was just so inspirational and would really let me run with something and she would let me fail.

And that was so important. So important. I mean, and you, you're saying that you built, I mean you built this, this was something new that you created, essentially. I mean, you need to have, like you were talking about the safe space, if you will, of of, of knowing that if you're gonna do something new, it's brand new.

Having that, that net that, you know, you're not gonna be axed just because if you make a little mistake. 'cause the, the thing is, when do things new, we're gonna make some mistakes as we we're go along. Absolutely. And that's important because if you don't make [00:11:00] those mistakes, you're not gonna make it better.

For sure. No, no. I mean, the key is learning from the mistakes, right? I mean, that's correct. That's, that's how we are successful, is by making mistakes and learning from them and using them as our, our stepping stones to where we need to go, essentially. Absolutely. So it's so true. It's so true. It's when you did your trademark during this time.

I did. I did during this time because I started to understand, because that was around the time when people were talking about customer experience, right? And what does a customer experience mean to a brand and corporate reputation? So I'm like, okay, so what does it mean? With employees. And attracting candidates and keeping candidates and keeping employees a long time.

Why do people stay and grow their careers at places? And that's when I did about 18 months worth of reach research and got my trademark. I was the first one to get the trademark. In fact, the reason we call it employee experience is, is my trademark. Mm-hmm. And I never really did anything with it, so I continued along.

You know, doing internal communications. Yeah, doing hr, which to be fair is a very [00:12:00]natural fit. If you're a good communicator, it works. Um, and then I have always been involved with TED conferences as a TED translator. Oh, fun. And I was popped into the TED Fellowship program. Amazing. And I, that was amazing.

And I was, I would love that. Yes. It was so cool. It was definitely like a y incubator kind of experience. Really, really cool with some amazing people. And at the end of it, in 2017, Chris Anderson's like, okay, so Kat, what's the name of your company? I'm like, I didn't wanna start a company, damn you. But I did.

And it was the, it was the employee experience agency, Cheer Partners. And we really, really did things very different and I was very grateful to have the experience. I don't think I would ever. Start a business again because it takes its toll as you know. Mm-hmm. You sleepless nights, you know, I was doing MSAs and billing and time sheets and all the stuff I didn't wanna do.

I wanted to really be in the work and ideating and working with the team. So yeah, it was a great experience and since then I've just been, [00:13:00] you know, I'm basically the internal comms nanny, so I've worked for Amazon Alexa, Elastic now twice. I'm just completing my second contract with Elastic, um, Ernst and Young.

I was there for 10 months. Work human. So I go in and I sort of fill in either when they have a, a gap in internal communications or when they have a parental leave. And I love it case it was back to back parental leave. So it's really, it's great for me and I happen to like that because I bring my outside lens in.

But I also, like I am, I'm functioning like an employee. And you're focusing on the work that you really enjoy doing. Correct. And that I'm good at where I can bring value because I want my clients, like, I was so happy when Elastic brought me back again because that says, okay, I did bring value to them.

And that's, that's really humbling and gratifying all at once. Truly, it's, it speaks volumes. It really does. Yeah. Now how, no. Tell us about your consultancy. How do people find you? What's it called? Like. Where, where can they hire you, if you will? Well, they [00:14:00] can hire me, um, they can hire me directly. They can go to me through LinkedIn.

For example, with Elastic, I go through an agency called Lighthouse Creative. So I'm a subcontractor for them. And oftentimes companies will want to do that. I also did that for work Human. In the instance of ey, the, you just go directly through them and it's, you know, the Atrium payroll handles all their good stuff, their subcontractors, and that's how it works. Honestly,

like you, I've really cultivated a good village and I make sure I take care of them as much as they take care of me. It's so, Meredith Schu reached out from EUY. That's just, it's how people do it. Yeah, that's great. Corey Green just reached out from Deloitte, so hopefully I'll get a, good bit of consulting with Deloitte.

I mean, this is how it works, but then I always say, not only thank you, but don't forget I'm here for you too. What can I do for you? So that's really important to make sure that, you know, you're, you're really honoring the relationship. Yeah. Okay. A couple questions about some of the things we talked about.[00:15:00]

First. The TED fellow. I'm fascinated. I mean, there's a lot of people. Let's, let's be real. A lot of people are fascinated with the Ted, TED talks, TED fellows, what have you, because it's fascinating. I mean, who doesn't love knowledge that helps us grow and expand? Mm-hmm. So how did you get picked for the fellowship?

Is there something that helps you, is what I'm wondering? Any advice you'd give someone? I would say stay curious. So I attended my first TED in 2010, back when it was in Long Beach. So a very long time ago. And I was really, it was a gift to myself and it's, and it's an expensive ticket. I acknowledge that.

But what you get out of that week. Unlike anything you would ever get anywhere. Not only are you listening to these incredible talks, you're able to actually connect with these people in the off, in the off times, like outside of the talks with events and dinners and hikes and all these great things.

They really make it an incredible week. And so I said, you know what? I wanna get more involved. So I reached out to and [00:16:00] applied to be a Ted translator because I'm multilingual. And I said, you know what? Maybe this is a way that I can stay connected. And I've been to several Ted Women's, I've been to TED next, I've been to TEDxs.

I've been to several Ted's, big Ted's in Vancouver. But because I'm a TED translator, oftentimes I go for free because it's a volunteer role, which is great. So I still get that opportunity. To be there and absorb and, and frankly, even the translator community is incredible and huge.

So just stay curious. There are plenty of TEDxs all over the world, so if anyone listening is interested, just show up at a TEDx event and get to know the people. That is a, that is a great way in. And then if you're interested in volunteering for any event, go to the TED website and have at it. Perfect volunteer is the best way to start.

Yeah. You know what? Volunteering is a magical way to start a lot of different things. Yeah. You know, uh, getting into an organization you're interested or even just starting a new career change, if you will. Yeah. Volunteering's a great way to get some of that experience if [00:17:00] you're Yep. Trying to do something new.

So Yes, I'm a big, big fan. Yeah. And bottom line is, is what I've learned from just talking to people about their stories, is that if you really wanna help yourself. Help others. When you help others, you end up helping yourself, so, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. So double on that one. Yeah, exactly.

I call it a universal truth. It's just one of those universal truths that we all, some takes us, some of us longer than others to learn it. Yeah. But man, once you learn it, it is, it is a fact. Yeah. What about your sale of, of your agency? I'm curious about that. Like is there anything that that helped you?

I mean, 'cause you had four successful years. Is there anything that you did or helped you set it up to be successful for acquisition? You know what's so funny is acquisition was never the first thing on my mind. It wasn't like, oh, I'm gonna start this thing and then I'm gonna sell it. Yeah. I thought I was gonna start this thing and I would just grow it and see where it landed and see who wanted of the employees to take it from [00:18:00] there.

 That was really what I thought in the back of my head, and to be fair, I was lucky to be in the TED Fellowship program because it gives you. So many structured approaches that really set you up for success. So you know, they start with the organizational aspect of it. How do you set yourself up for success from that standpoint?

Financially, record keeping, all that stuff. That's where you begin. That's great. It's not with the big idea. Wow. And I think that structure. Helped me 'cause I'm the one who's gonna go right to the big idea. Right. But it, it definitely helped me sort of stay very, very organized, have the right people on my team.

It was not an easy road for sure. I mean, I originally had a partner who was introduced to me and she was gonna handle the finance and operations and, ultimately she ended up having to leave the company, within a year. So that was sort of like, oh my gosh, I can't believe this just happened.

I've gotta do everything all over again and figure this out. I think it also helped that they told me, hire young and hungry. [00:19:00] So don't just go for the seasoned folks. Hire the curious folks that are really hungry, that want the experience, that want to do this. And I think our value proposition of being fully remote, work from where you work best so long as you meet your clients on their time was really, really helpful and, and powerful in terms of attracting talent.

Yes. And then I think finally making sure they had a voice. It. It didn't matter what level you were in the company, we were pretty flat. You always had a voice. You could literally be on a client call that I'm on a client call too. Let's call it Galderma, which was one of our clients, and Emily could have said, you know what, Cat, wait a second.

I think this is a better approach for this. And I'd be like, okay, Emily, tell us more. And it was very, very safe to do that. And we, we were able to develop very confident team members, but also really powerful team structure. And that was really good for us. Yeah. That's beautiful. And that this is, this is the successful formula.

Absolutely. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. [00:20:00] Yeah. We were, we were very lucky. And yeah. And all of our, we did, we had no RFPs. All of our business was through word of mouth. Word of mouth, which was also incredible. And, you know, to be fair, I think I underestimated what it would be like to be a part of a larger agency. , So it didn't quite work out for me personally. . It, it was not necessarily a good fit for me, but many of the people that I hired are still there. Yeah, so I mean that's like to do them. It's important to pay attention to what's right for you and correct. And you know, there's lots of organizations that are wonderful where people thrive.

That doesn't mean it's the right one for you. And it is absolutely know, finding, finding that fit is that's how we're, that's how we're fulfilled. Yeah, absolutely. That's true. Success in my mind is being happy. When you wake up, you're so right. To go to work. Happy to go home. Yeah. Yeah. It's so true. And I know I work best remotely.

That's something that's important to me. It doesn't mean I won't go into office for offsites or whatnot, but I know I work best that way. Yeah. Both in my [00:21:00] teaching and you know, as an adjunct professor, I, I obviously teach onsite too, but to be fair, I really prefer teaching offsite. I think I can give more of myself and be more present without the commute.

I live in Long Island. Right. To New York City, right. Oh, yeah. Yes. Makes, that makes commute. It makes a big difference. Difference. Yeah. You know, especially when you've got your day job of being a consultant. Absolutely. Absolutely. And, and I agree. I mean, we, we, we do operate better in different circumstances and, and I can absolutely see, you know, I myself probably would, would, would operate similar to yourself as well.

Right. And just be able to have a little bit better of a connection and more focus and Yeah. And what have you. So yeah, it's just a matter of, we're blessed to live in a time where we have options. Yes, absolutely. And a lot different technologies to make things happen. So, yeah. You know, the world has definitely opened up to us and we should be using that openness.

So, yeah. Now we've covered a lot. I'm curious as, was there anything really impactful that happened in any one of these positions that, [00:22:00] that really was like a big lesson for you? If so, what happened and what'd you learn from it? You know, I, I had a boss and this particular boss was not the boss I thought I was getting, but the boss I ended up with and this particular boss, and I am just guessing here, right, having, I literally went to, I went to a workplace therapist after this because I was really distraught over the experience.

Um. Was bullying and gaslighting and very almost threatened by me. And to be fair, I'm really, you know, having chosen the path of HR and people in internal comms, I wanna be in the back row moving an organization forward. I don't want the CEO gig, like I don't, that's, I didn't even call myself a CEO and I had my agency, but for whatever reason, he felt threatened that I wanted that gig.

And punish me constantly. Constantly. And I would put [00:23:00] these stickers around my laptop and they would say, it's not personal. It's not, you just do the work and show up. Depersonalize, literally I had stickers all around my laptop till one day. I'm like, what am I doing? This is crazy. Yeah. Why am I here? And it took me a long time 'cause it felt like failure to me.

Yeah, it's not better. And to a degree, it absolutely was a failure, but it wasn't a failure that I owned. There was absolutely nothing I could have done because this boss ultimately had many more dynamics that they had to deal with. I was the least of them. But it was so personalized that it really, really affected me.

And I think that was the catalyst for me to really, again, work with a workplace therapist, which I'd never done before, and say, okay. What, what are the really important things that I love doing that I know I can do well at? So, if you've ever read Jim Collins Good to Great, what was my hedgehog? What was the nexus of what's gonna drive my economic engine?

What am I most passionate about? What? What can I be best at, right? And that [00:24:00] nexus is what I really needed to focus on, and it helped me get to even where I am today. So that was a really important one for me, for, for sure. Oh, a very big deal. And I mean, look, dealing with difficult people in the workplace is one of the harder situations that we have to, especially when it's your boss and it's something that you can't do anything about it.

We can't change other people. I mean, there's different tactics that we can use in those situations. But the bottom line is, is you can't change other people. The only thing you can do is change yourself. Right. And so you have to like, if you're stuck, if you're stuck there for whatever, you know, coming up with different, different things to do to try to help you get through.

And look, I know that you financial difficulties doesn't mean that you can just quit your job. I understand that, right? So I always tell people start looking, you know, you make sure this is, this is not how it is, right? This is not how it should be. This is not normal. And sometimes people think that, oh, well, sometimes this is just how it is, or I just have to put up with this because I could go [00:25:00] somewhere else and have no, actually, no right.

Do not settle for these types of things. Right. Do go look for find, find something else. Do the search keep your job until you find the next right thing. But you do not have to stay there. It is not normal, nor should it be. And we do, we spend way too much time in our work to be bullied or belittled or to feel these

constant negative emotions in our day-to-day work. That's not acceptable. I, no, that's my personal belief. It's so, I think you're absolutely right and I think for, you know, when I think about so many young people, and I think about the students that I teach and you know, they're just getting their master's degrees, they're

you know, mid to late twenties, to mid to late thirties, and they're feeling like most of them went and got their master's degrees because they wanted options. They felt stuck where they were. Right. And I always say to them, don't forget, you don't have to have one full-time job. Actually put together [00:26:00] consulting as I do coaching, adjunct professing.

Now you've got a ma. I only have a master's degree and I'm an adjunct professor teaching graduate courses. There are so many more options today to create the balance of. Okay, this is what I want in my personal life. I wanna go to the gym from seven to eight every day or whatever that looks like.

I wanna walk my dog at noon, whatever that looks like. But this is also what I need to live every month, and this is the stuff that I really enjoy doing. So how do I knit that all together? So it, I think it's a great time to be very creative about that. Truly. I think we really, it really is. I completely agree.

I mean, I'm doing it. I can do it. Anyone can do it. Right. I agree. Yeah. That's how I feel about myself when I do something like I can do it. Anyone can do it. Okay. Exactly. Exactly. And AI, I think is gonna bring more jobs to the table and more side hustles. I really, really believe that because I think the one thing we forget about with AI is artificial is in its very [00:27:00] name.

It needs that human element and that human partnership. So when I look at, you know, in a lot of cases I'm looking at ways to use AI in, in internal communications, and I've done programs in the Metaverse. I've done agentic AI and really thought about how to personalize and humanize and experience ai

can't do that on its own. Yeah. So don't fear ai. Take as many, you know, free courses as you can. Get familiar with it. Read up on it because it will help you. Not only do your job, but open doors for you. I really believe it. Completely agree. I, yeah, and we're embracing AI in all the ways. I mean, it's absolutely fascinating the things that you can do with ai.

I mean, yeah, it's, I can just go create a website in 30 minutes, right? Think about that. I, I can create a song, you know, based on my own life or what have, you know, Uhhuh, it's like, it's just, it's crazy. It's really powerful. How are you using ai? It, it is like, and, and I mean this because look, we're all using AI in different ways.

Yeah. I'm just curious, is there anything new that you've learned recently or creative [00:28:00] way you've been using it or I don't know, just something that you help with work, either work or life or productivity that you could share with us, because I'm just Yeah fascinated with the different ways people are coming up with it.

People are using it. Right. So my favorite recent hack, which is not my hack, it's the Uhhuh. It's one of the, one of the people I'm working with at Elastic. So, we use Google Gemini. So we go into Google Gemini and you'll say, you'll give a prompt to get some details on something if you need it, but you can actually create great images.

So you can go into Google Gemini and say, give me, a three point slide on blah, blah, blah with images, and it will give you like an incredible version with the images you grab that, pop it in your Google deck, and it's good, like really slick creative looking stuff. So better than going into Canva where you have to create it yourself.

It's just giving it to you based on the prompt. So number one, understand prompt engineering to get the right result. So that's very important. Um, but I think that's just my favorite thing so [00:29:00] far. I would say that one thing to know about ai, and I've been taking a lot of courses both free and paid because I, I need to really make sure that I'm understanding and I'm a curious person, is

for example, on your brand paradigm, right? if you go to Paradigm Staffing and pop it in Google, Gemini or whatever, it's gonna come up with whatever you've said about your website. And what other people have said about you that's not through paywalls. So the paywalls are locked. So Wall Street Journal, New York Times, it's not gonna pull that information.

It's only gonna pull what you've curated and what other people have said about you, including Glassdoor. So this is an opportunity for communicators to say, oh, wait a second. So I can cultivate how my brand shows up in the universe, right? It's a really cool and powerful thing. So one of the things that I'm working on is sort of a process, if you will, of how do you really shape your brand and tell your narrative in a repeatable way that that AI will pick it up because it's not gonna pick up that [00:30:00] great CEO quote that's behind a paywall.

Yeah. So yeah, I, so you had stuff that's, that's what you're doing in your work, Uhhuh, that's what I'm doing at 2:00 AM when I don't sleep and I get really creative. But yeah, I think that process is still in the build mode, but it, it's a really, really powerful, powerful tool, how we can really shape our narrative with ai.

For sure. Oh, it's exciting. All of that was very exciting. I mean, this has been so much fun. I'm, we've covered a lot. I'm curious, are there any other challenges that we haven't covered that that was something big that you had to overcome and that you learned from? I mean, so many really a lot of challenges that I've overcome.

I've never been one to take the easy route. I wish I had, some days I really do, but I have to say, it's okay to skin your knee. Don't worry about that. And if anyone's thinking about career change right now, if you don't wanna hire a coach, I have one really simple thing for $2 and 99 cents. What is it?

I want you to go to your, go to your phone and download SY [00:31:00] Partners, which is, and I have no affiliation with this company, SY Partners, right? Superpower cards. So it's a game you play on your phone and it tells you what your superpower is. Maybe yours is complexity busting. Maybe mine is empathy, whatever that looks like.

So after you go through the game, but not only that, it tells you how your superpower shows up and makes you really unique as a talent, as a human in your community, but also gives you the shadow side. So, hang on, complexity buster. You may be doing these things, so watch out for that. It really does help.

And a lot of, you know, I, I talk to a lot of, you know. Sort of early, mid-career folks that are interested in coaching, and that's the first thing I tell them to do right away. And that doesn't mean they're gonna come back to me and say, you know what? I wanna hire you as a coach and I'm good with that.

Yeah, because I know this will actually get them thinking in terms of, oh wait, I have something really unique to bring. And that's something that people like you and me, and anyone listening to this podcast needs to remember. You are really unique. You [00:32:00] have some great gifts to bring. So if you've been beaten down by the job market, go get your superpower back.

Throw on that cape. I love it so much. Thank you. You welcome. You would say the same thing. No doubt. Yes. No, I'm, I'm cheering the message. I'm like, yay. That's what we all need. And what, and what, and I love, I love a great free suggestion that anyone can go do and provide a quick benefit in your life immediately.

Yep. It's immediately super quick, super easy win. Yeah. Yeah. And really self awareness. What's your, what's your best advice? For the early mid-career group, I'm curious to know your best advice. Oh, my best advice for the early career, early to mid-career group, you know, oh, no, let me, let me think about that for a second.

I mean, really the, for me, the best advice that I give people is a lot of what we've talked about, and it's the, the perseverance, it's the taking risk. It's also we talked about having the safe space because I'm a big believer [00:33:00] in, in aiming big, I'm a big believer in looking at big ideas and trying new things and, and taking the risks.

And sometimes you fail, sometimes you slide down, but you know the learning from that is, is magical and, and a lot of times earlier in our career, it's just, there's so much fear in doing any of that. We hold ourselves back so much because we don't feel so true that we are allowed to, or we're going to, we're gonna have repercussions or we're gonna get in trouble.

And so learning that making mistakes, failures actually a really good, like changing the perspective. It's actually a good thing. And, and yeah, it's actually a beautiful thing. And like I said before, it's how we get to where we need to be and without those learning lessons, we, we really aren't gonna get to where we need to be.

I mean, it, it's virtually impossible to come from here to here and not make any mistakes or have any failures and learn. So, so it's a lot of, being okay with it, you know? And, and another thing I'm really passionate about, which goes along with it, is that imposter syndrome.

[00:34:00] You know, it's, it's something that I struggle with on and off my, my entire life. I mean, really anytime I push myself into something new, I'm, I'm struggling with imposter syndrome. Yeah, me too. And, and I'm passionate about it because I used to think that it was, you know, something that, other people didn't deal with.

And I've since learned that really everybody deals with this. I mean. A hundred percent of CEOs deal with imposter syndrome at some point or another. You know, I mean, it's, this is just normal human feeling. So I also like to tell people do not listen to your imposter syndrome at all. Yeah. It's just a normal human feeling.

It is not telling you it's not right. It. Not telling you that you're not good enough, and that's true. No, actually, we all think that at some point or another, you just need to learn how to walk with your fear and keep moving forward and that growth is gonna happen. Eventually that imposter syndrome falls away and then you push yourself somewhere new and then you're gonna have more new imposter syndrome.

You know, that's, this is, this is, this is life. If you want to grow, you're gonna [00:35:00] experience uncomfortable feelings. Yeah, so, so I think that's so important. I think you need to come up with t-shirts, walk with your fear, walk with your fear. That is so, no, that's really powerful though. You're absolutely right.

So many of us, and we look at people that we think are so successful, they have it all together. Oh my gosh. Well, she must go to bed at night and have a full night's sleep and never, ever wake up during the night, never stressed, and blah, blah, blah. Well, frankly, we're all dealing with at, at different stages and opportunities in our life, and it's, it's a scary thing.

 And I don't believe necessarily people need to fake it until they make it. I don't think That's good advice, because I think you should be as informed as you can be to be as confident as you can be. Because if you don't show up, if you show up very unconfident, you're going to, you're not gonna get it.

Right. You just won't. So get informed. Understand, like, I. There are things we haven't done, things you haven't done in roles that you've been put in. There are things that I haven't done in role. I'd never worked with the Metaverse until I was with ey, but I [00:36:00] got really, really informed when they put me on that project and that helped me have confidence to ask the right questions, make the right decisions, and ultimately create something that, that with the team.

It wasn't certainly just me, I was just on the communication side, but come up with something that was really powerful. Right. Right. I, so I, I actually, I'm a big believer in fake it till you make it. Yeah. Just, just because, well, because, you know, it's, it's how you define it though, right? I don't believe in going in and pretending like you know everything.

Right. I don't believe that at all, and I think we have way too much of that in our world. What I do believe in is stepping into something that you're uncomfortable with and maybe you feel very uncomfortable and you feel like that imposter syndrome. So when I talk about fake it till you make it, I'm thinking about my imposter syndrome, I'm thinking about how I'm feeling internally and I need to fake that.

I'm actually perfectly fine. My shoulders are back, my head is up. I absolutely can do this. Even if internally I'm [00:37:00] thinking I cannot, I'm like, no, I can do this. So, so my fake it to make it is more of a restructuring of the internalness of pushing yourself and walking forward. But, but I understand, I agree with you on the fake it to make it of like.

Don't go in and pretend like you have all the answers when you do not. Right. You know, don't pretend like you know all the things when you do not. I don't agree with that because we don't need to have all the answers. As long as we are curious and we know how to ask the right questions and, and consult and research, then you know it's okay not to have all the answers.

Yeah. That's so important. So I think it. It's, it's, I, I wanted to say that because it's such an interesting topic. It's a topic's a good distinction though. You know, it's, yeah. It's a really good distinction because your lens is different than my lens. My lens would be, okay.

The first time I was thinking about, okay, the missing, the missing tool in change management at Ruter Finn at the time in corporate communications was the employee communications piece. So I wasn't writing content all the time. That wasn't my job. So what did I do? I took a certificate course at the [00:38:00] new school

in writing because I wanted to be informed. Does that make sense? Right. Yes, absolutely. And it still was. I still was, I still had terrible imposter syndrome. I had to literally pitch this to the CEO. Hey Kathy, what about starting an internal comms practice? She's like, you know what, Cat, go for it. Yes, it worked out, but I was terrified.

I felt like I would total imposter here. I'm the HR lady for crying out loud. I love this. I was it, but I was committed enough To try it, that I really needed to, like amplify my, my writing skills. Yeah. And I still take writing courses to this day because, you know, especially for people like me that write in another voice, another brand, you know, standard or another, you know, a third party, I, I need to refresh it because every company is different and if I don't keep it live, then you know, that's gonna be, it's gonna be hard for me to succeed. Oh yeah. Thank you so much for sharing that. I, I hope everyone heard that. You know, Cat she was nervous about pitching nervous internal comms, [00:39:00] and so look at what happened.

Look at what happened. I mean, created this whole new division. It's like, How amazing. I love, I just love that story. Thank you for sharing and a lot of support. I was, again, I was very lucky to have Kathy Bloomgarden as a CEO, to this day. I will send her a note once a year giving her a little anecdote.

Do you remember when? And I was freaking out. And you just were like, Cat, we've got this and we had it. And thank you. Yes. Honestly, she was great. Yes. You know, that's another important thing. It's okay to be freaking out as you're doing these things too. Right? That's okay. Yeah. It doesn't mean you are making the wrong decision.

It's agreed. Just normal human things that I go through. Totally, totally. And then you get to the other side and you're like, oh wow. Look at, did we really do that? Yeah. Yeah. It's amazing. I hope this is inspiring. That's, yeah. I hope this is inspiring someone who's been sitting there a little worried, you know, to yeah.

To take that step. So I hope so., Cat, this is so great. Before we go, I'm, you know, I love to ask people just to throw this out, you know, if there's anything that you've [00:40:00] read, watched, or listened to that's had a positive impact on your life or career, that others could benefit from as well.

'cause I just, I'm very passionate about feeding our minds in a positive way. So, yes, so many. I'm a huge podcaster and this is gonna sound a little crazy, but I just listened to the Amanda Knox interview on Monica Lewinsky's podcast. And this is the thing. There were so many life gems in this podcast.

I actually set aside time for myself this coming Saturday to re-listen to it and write down the gems on how to look at yourself, how to stay centered in a storm, how to, you know, know your worth. It was absolutely incredible. So I would say that one really recently, listen, I didn't expect it. I turned on Netflix and I saw the Netflix show.

I'm like, oh, I'm gonna watch that. 'cause. You know, everyone was curious about what happened at the time, and it was directed by Monica [00:41:00] Lewinsky. Next thing you know, she's on her podcast and I was blown away by it, truly surprisingly. Oh, I'm excited. I'm definitely gonna give that a listen. Thank you. Yeah. I love getting two.

Okay. If you're young, I've got one. Listen to Elevation Nation. If you're early to Mid Career, elevation Nation is real stories about what you thought work would be like. What it's actually like. It may be a little scary different, not at all what you expected. Elevation Nation is also a really good one.

Awesome. Oh, those are two great. Such suggestions. Thank you. Yeah. Well, Cat, this has been wonderful. I'm gonna throw out my last final question just 'cause I like to know what people say. What are you sure of in life? I'm sure that I can take care of myself. Oh yes. Nice. Yeah. Yeah. How about you? What are you sure of in life?

Oh gosh. You know, I love the question because whenever I think about what I'm sure of, if I start needling it. [00:42:00] I start to feel less sure. Okay. So I'm sure of what I am sure of. I am sure of change. Here's what I'm very sure of. I am very sure that this is a one big, beautiful life that we get and we do not have any promise number of days.

So I'm a hundred percent sure that we should be making the most of our life. And we should be learning to walk with our fear so that we do all the things that we dream of and we don't allow that fear to stop us from doing the things that we really wanna do with this one big, beautiful life that we have.

That's for sure. I love that. Love that. That's perfect and beautiful and very inspirational. So thank you for inspiring me. Truly. Thank you again. I've loved this conversation. You too. So appreciate your time. Thanks for joining us on The Career More Less podcast. Thank you. Thank you for joining us on the Career Wanderlust Podcast.

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Until next time.