From Communications to Talent Leadership with Isobel Petersen: Finding power in saying yes, asking questions, emotional intelligence, and breaking the ‘always-on’ myth

 "You don't need all the answers to be valuable in the room." Discover how this powerful insight transformed Isobel Petersen's career from communications executive to Head of Talent Operations at Milltown Partners. Join us for an enlightening conversation about career pivots, emotional intelligence, and the courage to say "yes" to unexpected opportunities.

Guest Bio:

Isobel Petersen is a talent acquisition and operations leader who has played a pivotal role in scaling Milltown Partners from a boutique firm to 150 employees across five global offices. As Head of Talent Operations, she oversees recruitment, DEI initiatives, and operational strategy. Beyond her corporate role, Isobel mentors with Good Work, a UK-based organization focused on career development and workplace impact.

Content Sample:

- The surprising power of asking questions instead of having answers

- How vulnerability in career discussions can open unexpected doors

- Transformative insights on modern people management and creating psychological safety

- A fresh perspective on work-life boundaries and decision-making

Key Takeaways:

[2:00] - The game-changing advice about not needing answers, but asking the right questions

[7:45] - How saying "yes" to unexpected opportunities can reshape your career trajectory

[14:30] - The essential elements of effective people management in today's workplace

[24:00] - Practical strategies for maintaining focus and managing multiple priorities

Memorable Quotes:

"You don't always need to have the answers in order to be worthwhile of being in a room. You can ask the right questions."

"Working hard is no bad thing, but you can be a great friend and a great colleague if you actually log off."

Related Content:

- HBR IdeaCast: Deep dives into management and leadership topics

- "Grit" by Angela Duckworth: Exploring perseverance and achievement

- Armchair Expert podcast: Expert-on-Expert series for in-depth professional insights

Suggestions:

Ready to accelerate your career growth? Connect with Jolie Downs on LinkedIn at https://www.linkedin.com/in/joliedowns/ and visit paradigmstaffing.com to explore how we can help you build exceptional teams in PR, marketing, communications, and business development.

If you enjoy learning from others, please give us a like, subscribe, and share with a friend. 

Ending Note:

What unexpected "yes" could transform your career? Join us next time as we continue to explore the intersections of career growth, leadership, and personal development. Share your thoughts and suggestions for future guests in the comments below! 🎙️

#CareerGrowth #Leadership #TalentDevelopment #Career 

Transcript

Isobel-Petersen

Jolie Downs: [00:00:00] Welcome to the Career Wanderlust podcast, your compass for new career horizons. Today we are talking with Isobel Peterson. Isobel is a talent acquisition and operations leader specializing in corporate communications and scaling businesses. She is currently the head of talent operations at Milltown Partners, a transatlantic reputation and policy advisory firm.

Isobel joined Milltown as a junior communications executive working across a diverse range of sectors, including technology, VC, education. And private clients in 2018, she transitioned into the firm's first full time in house talent acquisition role, where she has played a pivotal role in the company's growth to 150 employees across London, New York, San Francisco, Brussels, and Dublin.

She also helped establish Milltown's DEI steering group, a commitment program. She oversees onboarding and offboarding [00:01:00] processes, talent, data management. And leads various operational initiatives to enhance the firm's overall talent strategy. Amazing. Beyond her work at Milltown, Isobel is a mentor with Good Work, a UK based organization that focuses on career development and workplace impact.

I would love to learn more about that. Isobel, thank you for joining us on the Career Wanderlust podcast. 

Isobel Petersen: My pleasure. Thank you for reaching out and having me. 

Jolie Downs: Oh, I love it. It's so fun getting to know people's different impactful moments or, or, or pieces of advice that really impacted them. I'd love to know what is something that has been really impactful for you?

What's been like your favorite career advice and why? 

Isobel Petersen: It's one of those things, isn't it? When I reflect on advice, you inevitably get something almost every day. from your colleagues or your friends, and then it's trying to choose the one thing. Well, you always think you should be writing it down. But when I was reflecting on this, I [00:02:00] think the thing that stood out to me is something that one of my more senior colleagues, who I've worked with for many years, she joined the business before me, I think, she's called Jenny here in the UK.

And she said to me that I didn't always need to have the answers in order to be worthwhile of being in a room. I could ask the right questions. It's a good one. 

Jolie Downs: That's a good one. 

Isobel Petersen: It's a really, really good one. So, if you're, I think it has stuck with me. She probably said that to me at some point in maybe 2017 or 2018.

And it has applied in so many different ways. circumstances, you know, when you're managing someone new and trying to figure out a dynamic or you're stepping into more authority or you're handling an unexpected crisis or a new project or something, I think reminding yourself that you can ask the questions, bring together a group of people and hash out the kind of what the answer should look like you are playing an invaluable role.

role in the whole [00:03:00] dynamic of a group. And I find that sometimes quite hard. I like to talk, bring a lot of energy to meetings. And so it was really good advice, but I think the people who are often quiet, but really, really curious are the ones where when you leave a meeting, you think, gosh, that was that one thing that they said just kind of made all the difference.

So that has been a great bit of advice that I try to try to live by. 

Jolie Downs: Oh, I love this advice so much because it is an important reminder. So many of us feel that way. We feel like we need to have all the answers. And if we don't have the answers, we feel like there was something wrong, or, or we should have.

And a lot of times when people feel that way, they'll, they'll. Make up an answer, you 

Isobel Petersen: know, the other thing is right, like the other bit of advice, which is related to that is you can just say, actually, I don't know, I'm going to get back to you exactly or, or let me find out, or I sometimes get that in the recruitment kind of discussion when an interviewer has said, Oh my goodness, as well, I think I might have really misled a candidate because I just felt like I [00:04:00] couldn't, I had to answer that question about, Oh, Well, that's, that's my job.

You can always just say no and it's fine. You can say yes, redirect them. And it's all good. 

Jolie Downs: I love it. You know, that was something that was really powerful to me, to being told that it's okay not to have the answer and that you can just say, you know what? I don't have the answer, but I'm going to look it up and I'm going to find out.

And, and I find this to be a powerful thing in general. For us humans at this point in life, right, we don't have to have all the answers and it's better for us to say, you know what, let me look into that, look into it, really get that right answer and get back to you as opposed to just shooting something out because 

Isobel Petersen: try exactly that, like hold yourself back, you don't, it doesn't always have to be moving really, really quickly and kind of being the loudest or being the quickest to respond to something and, and figure it out.

But actually putting that little bit of extra time in and slowing yourself down. But it's an ego check. You have to, . I suppose practice makes perfect, right? Like you have to feel that [00:05:00] sometimes there's a bit of humility and in saying, actually, I really don't know something and that's, that's okay and not kind of leaving the room and thinking, Oh my goodness.

Jolie Downs: And as a reminder that it's a sign of intelligence, to be honest, you know, I mean, it is, it's a sign of intelligence to know when you don't know something and to know how to go ask the right questions to find it out. It's, it's, This is what we all need to remember. We don't, none of us actually have all the answers.

Isobel Petersen: I know, as hard as it is to believe, we don't have all the answers. Yes, 

Jolie Downs: and I say this just because I'm sure everyone knows, you know, I have people in my life who, who were really uncomfortable with not having the answers. So, so they will come and they will say things with such confidence. Authority that you're just like, Oh, that must be true.

And they're actually blowing smoke. 

Isobel Petersen: Yes, absolutely. Well, that's, um, I suppose, especially in the world of communications, which I know is like part of your, you know, your professional world as well. Like you have to make sure you're interrogating. A good client advisory relationship [00:06:00] is one that is interrogating what the other is, is saying and what they're putting in front of you.

And I think like, then that kind of feeds back into that, question and answer dynamic as well as if, you know, as a recruitment professional, I'm an advisor to my business, to the employees, my employees are advisors to their clients. You're an advisor to me, like you, there's lots of advice, but to be an advisor, you need to make sure that you are listening and asking.

And I think that has been. Yeah, I try and try and hold on to that one. 

Jolie Downs: Yeah. Yeah. Love it. I think it's great. So now, what about a story? Because I love, I love a good story. Is there something that's happened to you in your career that ended up being an impactful lesson? And it's something that by sharing, other people might learn something by listening.

Isobel Petersen: I, so I have, I actually gave a story. , I wrote a speech at my, I don't know, in America, maybe it was the commencement speech, I guess like at the end of high school, and I was invited back and, and did a talk last year. And so I kind of took this story from that, because I was trying to think about what [00:07:00] am I going to tell these amazing young women who are 18 and.

Figure themselves out way more than I probably know myself and it I was trying to reflect on my career a little bit and it all comes down to like saying yes. And by that I mean that you can have a life well lived. I think by saying yes, there's so much to look forward to that. We don't know. There's so much hardship that we don't know.

 What's around the corner. And I have really never been someone to feel that connected to the idea of a career plan or a 10 year vision or a life plan. And, I don't mean that I've fallen into everything, but I do think that kind of some of the best things have happened when you are keeping your ears and eyes open to things and, and Willing to give something a go or, or to kind of jump in.

And, and so that was exactly what happened when I took on the in-house recruitment role. So it was like back in 2018 or thereabouts. And I joined Milltown, , as you said in, in the intro in November, 2015. It's actually my nine [00:08:00] year anniversary this week, which is kind of, Ooh, congratulations. Crazy.

I know this is quite nice, having to talk about it. And I joined on the graduate com side, but after a couple of years was honestly just starting to think like. Is corporate comms for me? Am I as good as it as I can kind of see all of my colleagues being good for it? And I was fairly open and I'd started been started thinking about what might come next.

But I knew I was , really motivated by the co founders by the leadership. And so that was at the heart of things like how do I keep working for something that is scaling and something that is It was run by really clever, hardworking kind of kind people and they offered the recruitment role to me and it was with so much open mindedness and kind of thoughtfulness from them , and belief, I guess.

And I just honestly, I think it took one evening to decide to say, Yes to that offer. And that has opened up working in talent, which really is going to be the foundation or has started to be the foundation for my whole career. There's just nothing more interesting and [00:09:00] I can take it down so many different kind of avenues.

I think, and I think the lesson of that, apart from having that little bit of like. Occasional courage to just say yes to an opportunity and, and, and, you know, not, not waste something is actually opening up with some of these questions and doubts that you might have about your career can be really, really valuable.

I think like it's a little bit. I really appreciate, that it's not, it doesn't work in every workplace. You've got to have the right people around you who you can trust and who you can feel in a, safe environment. But if there are people who are wiser than you, who have more experience, who have different experience, like You've only got one life and you only have one career.

And, and so it's, it's kind of up to us to get up and go to work every day. And so we may as well make that as, as good as it can be. And I think that if there are people that you can ask things off, then, then do it. And so, what was slightly kind of youthful, like aspiration of just being quite honest [00:10:00] about questioning what, whether corporate comms was for me, I would say fundamentally.

, helped indicate to the leadership that, that I had ambition in other spaces and that I could be used and, coached in, in that way. So that has definitely been a lesson to me. 

Jolie Downs: There's so much here to unpack. I'm curious. Did you share that with your boss or your manager at that time that you were wondering or curious about other things?

Isobel Petersen: I don't think I shared it with the CEO. I don't think I shared it with Jonathan, but I shared it with a couple of the other senior members of the team. You know, if they were doing, I'm sure it would have. 

Jolie Downs: And then they brought you this other potential opportunity to shift essentially. They did. 

Isobel Petersen: Someone was leaving the business who had done, she was an amazing office manager and had done a little bit of the recruitment on the side, but we were opening in San Francisco that summer.

And, they came to me and so we get the impression you're motivated more by the internal operations of the business than the client facing work and you're kind of invested in that space and you've got, you know, they said, nice flattering things about [00:11:00] the skills I had, but you could learn recruitment because it's you can transfer your skills.

And so, 

Jolie Downs: There's so much goodness here. I mean, like so many key elements of, of success, right? First, that, that self awareness. I mean, you were paying attention to yourself. You're paying attention to things that you were enjoying, that you weren't enjoying, and you were questioning yourself. And, and I want to applaud you for that because a lot of people will get stuck.

You know, they'll just keep moving, plodding forward, if you will. , and this is how people end up in careers where they're not really happy. , by just continuing to move forward in something, not really paying attention to , those little flags that, that pop up. So congrats. So I just want to say good for you for paying attention to yourself.

And then for saying something, you know, I mean, really, there's so much power in, in just. Saying out loud how you're feeling, what you're thinking, what it is that you want, and, and so often by doing that, that's how we bring things into our universe, right, by actually, I mean, just speaking it out loud, and so by being honest with your managers, you know, help [00:12:00] bring that in, and then when the opportunity comes, like you said, saying yes, This is the big one.

We have to say yes, even when it's scary or we're unsure or you're not quite, I mean, this is how we learn, right? This is by saying, yes, we expose ourself to different opportunities, responsibilities to, to learn about ourselves. Like, do I like this? Do I not like this? What is it that I like? What is it I don't like?

Do I want to continue to doing more or less? What have you? I mean, these are all the questions that, that lead us to where we want to be. So, 

Isobel Petersen: I think that has to be, I think, um, look, you have to, it all comes with the, you know, there's always a time and a place and, and sometimes there are moments where you can be a little bit more, bold with your own career and other times there aren't.

But I think when you are in a headspace, space of like, I've got energy, I've got time, I've got security. I've got these people around me who are, , I'm lucky enough to be learning from , just kind of go for it. It's one of my, the things that, I love the most is when [00:13:00] being, being in recruitment is so wonderful because you basically bring everyone into the business and then you've got an excuse to talk to everyone once they're in the business.

Anytime I'm in the office, , there's an excuse, you know, who everyone is and you can just hear and pick that kind of hear from them about what they're doing and pick their brains. And I think , there's nothing more infectious than when someone, particularly if they're new to the business or a really junior in their career, like a kind of filling up with like ideas and questions , and raising a hand to get stuck into things.

And I think like, The hope is even on the really hard weeks or even on the weeks where, as you say, sometimes there's plodding because you're not putting conscious thoughts into it. And sometimes there's plodding because you need to be plodding, but if you can, like, you know, make the most of the people around you and have those brimming ideas.

And so I think that is, yeah, what I'm having a bit of a, like, Oh, it's just another normal day. And then you speak to go and find someone that will energize you and have a chat with them and ask them questions and, share some of those concerns, as you were saying, like, give it a go.

And, and I [00:14:00] do think it really, really pays off. 

Jolie Downs: It definitely does. Yes. And have you seen that pay off for you in other ways throughout your career? Have you, have you said yes in other ways and kind of, 

Isobel Petersen: I mean, I said yes to this podcast. Yeah. , I said yes to the podcast. When you Yeah. And this was 

Jolie Downs: your, this is your first podcast, correct?

It's a big deal, you guys. It's a really big deal. The first podcast. It's 

Isobel Petersen: great. I have many more microphones, kind of opportunities, , I think saying yes to this podcast,. I think saying yes to taking on more management responsibilities of other people and kind of finding, I love people management, definitely not a perfect people manager by, by any stretch, of course.

No one, no one really is, but I think having the chance to build relationships , with More junior people who maybe have a completely different set of, or definitely have a completely different set of skills from me and being able to try and get in their [00:15:00] world and, and be in partnership. And, and whenever those opportunities have come up, I've always said yes to those.

I really, really love that kind of coaching and leadership piece as well. 

Jolie Downs: I'm curious, what do you think is most important when it comes to people management? Because this is. Let's be honest, this is a really, really important aspect to a successful company in general. 

Isobel Petersen: Right. And I was actually just reading Lattice have done that kind of big state of talent in 2025 report, which I would recommend anyone to check out.

But this was like one of their key The kind of manager and HR talent relationship. I will always learn how to do it better. I think active listening, which again, it comes back to my bit of advice from Jenny, ask questions and then actually listen to, to what you're hearing. , I think being a , really active listener so that it is in my view, and I've had some, I've worked with some external coaches, which has been really valuable, but.

The, the key thing is like, you can't fix someone's whole life and nor should you. , that is [00:16:00] not your, that is not your, it's not your job to help someone who, if they're suffering with something in their personal life and it influences their work, it's not your job to get them a promotion. It's not your job to, , ensure they're staffed on an amazing project, but it is your job to help them, , Ask the right questions, raise a hand, understand what is maybe stressing them out or causing them a load of excitement.

And I think that active listening piece is the kind of underpinning of all of that. I also honestly think, and I've benefited from this from managers, like having someone that Without being, is still a champion, even if they're not fixing things. So sometimes you need someone who you feel that you can say to them, like, I've really struggled this week, or I've actually got some really nice feedback and I just kind of want to tell someone that I've had this really nice.

I'm like someone who is going to sit there and listen, or be on a video call, or be on Slack even, and just say like, that is awesome. Like I am [00:17:00] here to celebrate you. And to shout people out and I am a huge fan of the slack shout out and I will do it uninterrupted because what is better than having someone, a colleague, someone you, get along with and trust and, hopefully even admire saying to you like, yes, that was an amazing email you sent.

So that was a brilliant meeting that you run. So I think active listening and being someone's champion while remembering like. You don't have to be their fixer and their problem solver. , and trying to keep that kind of balance in mind. 

Jolie Downs: Yes. What I'm hearing is, is you become that safe space for them.

It's a safe space. Yeah, yeah, yeah. They can share with you the difficulties or struggles they're feeling, but they also can share with you the great things. Yeah. And you're going to listen, you're gonna hear, you're gonna respond to all of the different aspects coming in and be there for them in the ways they need.

This is the key. to people management right here, right? This is, this is what [00:18:00] makes people happy in their work because they feel safe and heard , and seen really. 

Isobel Petersen: Yeah. 

Jolie Downs: I 

Isobel Petersen: think that's it. I, I, I sometimes wrestle with the concept of, , bringing your whole self to work. I know that's There's like, everyone has an opinion on that phrase and some companies really live by it , and other companies really steer against it.

I guess we're in the middle. I think my iteration of that is you should be able to choose if you want to bring your whole self to work. And if a company culture and kind of environment and people management can give you that space, then you're good to go. And I think that's part of what we're both saying here about people management is like, someone should be able to be them whole.

their whole selves with you as a manager, but it's at their discretion and they don't have to tell you absolutely everything. And, and, but they can hopefully come to you and say like, I really want to be able to, get this grade in my next review. And can we drop steps to get that? And then [00:19:00] you can help kind of hold them to account and motivate them and champion them and, and get them there.

But. 

Jolie Downs: Yeah, exactly. You're the key. You're helping them reverse engineer, figure out how to get there, take the steps that are neat, right? Yeah. And the supporter. So, and this is, this is what we're all looking for. And I, you know, we, you and I, we've worked with all kinds of managers, you know, they're not always like that, , but I feel like we're on a path of where we're getting more people thinking about it.

Yep. The best practices for people management and really, , bringing into to play a lot of new ways that maybe weren't the ways that was happening when I first started my career. Yeah, 

Isobel Petersen: I think so. And I think that sometimes it can be mistake, like enthusiasm can be mistaken for high quality and enthusiasm to be a people manager is, is excellent.

Every company needs that because whether you are. a line manager, or whether you're just managing them on one particular task or, or you're in a coach capacity you can't do that [00:20:00] without enthusiasm. But I do think that there are companies need to hold responsibility for saying, okay, this person is a people manager for the first time.

And just alone isn't going to make them feel good at it or make them energy kind of Receive the wins of the whole thing. So actually some guidance and structure. And then, you know, , maybe some people are better suited to being individual contributors. And, I think tapping into what is a good people manager at every firm, according to the values that they hold and the kind of career frameworks.

And then, Some people are going to be great at that and other people are going to be great at other things and that's okay as well. 

Jolie Downs: And that's okay. That's an important distinction as well. We all have our different talents, different challenges, and it's just about finding that right avenue for each of us.

Right? 

Isobel Petersen: Exactly. 

Jolie Downs: Yeah. Now, what about a challenge? Have you had a big challenge in your career and, and, and how did you overcome? So 

Isobel Petersen: I, I don't mean it to sound casual. I don't think [00:21:00] there's been one. big challenge. I think I've been fairly, lucky so far. I think the, however, not one big challenge, but I'd say the kind of consistent challenge that I have , is that desire.

And we've kind of touched on it a bit. I it's how I talk as well, but the desire to do everything while knowing that in order to do a few things. Well, you have to just do a few things. I 

Jolie Downs: laugh because I feel this. 

Isobel Petersen: Yeah. That kind of appetite to contribute to how like talent and recruitment are just as good as they can be.

And I think there's a never ending. Appetite for that, that I carry. And there's a never ending list of opportunity and possibility because it's all about humans. And so therefore like every new candidate or every new, event you go to, or every new kind of project that a business brings in , is made up of a new composition.

of people. [00:22:00] So I think my permanent challenge is like, how do I just kind of go laser focus as well as being a great ideas person? I'm expected and should be a great manager, a great employee, a great collaborator, a great listener and learner, a great advisor to the leadership. I kind of need to be all of those things.

I can't just be, operating in the world of Isobel doing exactly as I wish and what I find exciting. And so I think combining that personality trait and then being , in a successful growing organization means that I need to like slow down, find those role models who do that really well and learn from them and be really laser focused.

And so, , I write everything down. I have a million calendars and I have a lot of like, using a lot of Slack checklists and workflows. And I think also it comes back to that kind of people thing as well of who are you, who is able to help you clear the noise. And I have a couple [00:23:00] of amazing colleagues who I can just.

who are peers of mine in different parts of the business, who I can just say, like, I written down about 25 ideas for our 2025 planning. Can I bounce them around, around with you? So, I mean, that's a lucky challenge to have, , to be brimming with ideas, but I would say that is, , and I'm sure if ever my managers listen to this, then they will probably recognize that trait.

Jolie Downs: It's my favorite, personally. Lots of ideas. And you know what? Lots of ideas, that is, that is the thing. When you have lots of ideas, you need that person that helps you just Narrow it down into what's the best focus here. Like, you know, all of these ideas, where do I actually go in? So you need to have that.

I love this topic personally because focus is a big deal these days. And a lot of people are struggling with focus, right? And just being able to get it. , you hear all the time, ADHD. It's almost like everybody kind of has it now because of, I mean, and I don't mean to say that. Like, flippantly.

 People really [00:24:00] struggle with this. Yes. ADHD. , but what I've been reading is that even people, who, We don't have that have been bringing on attributes of that because of really just how we are with our media and how we are, you know, it's all snippets.

It's all 30 seconds or a minute and it's, it's taking our focus away. Our ability to focus for long periods of time is what I've been reading. So, so you mentioned writing things down. So what are some of the things that, that help you with this? 

Isobel Petersen: Yeah, I think it's the, yeah, writing. I have an insane amount of calendars.

So using calendars to good effect. I am a pen to paper person. I've tried using the notes app and stuff. And I just so much prefer, Pen to paper. I think doing first anytime there's something fairly big, like, you know, it's 2025 planning season. So building presentations or perhaps you're, , doing a look back on the year and trying to pull in lots of different data and tell that story is [00:25:00] do your first draft.

And then go to sleep, and then leave it for a day or two, , get someone else in to look at it, and then hash it over. All of the mistakes, all of the lessons learned from back in university, when you would just pull an all nighter, and kind of try to avoid that ever happening in, in working life all of these years later.

Um, so yeah, always sleeping on a first draft, and giving yourself the time and space to do a first draft. , I'm good at my job, but I'm. Never going to be as good as I can be if I don't actually give the time to do it and, and get things written down and then say to someone like, this is the first time I've spoken about this topic internally.

Can I practice with you? I would love to kind of, you can poke holes in things. And can you read that first draft and then honestly logging off. Again, there's, we could have a whole episode on what wellbeing and balance means in the workplace, but I am someone who is a big believer in , if you are a passionate employee, working hard is no bad thing [00:26:00] and, and kind of jumping into the, , being a team player and, and, which But being a team player and like contributing your best.

And if you're enjoying something, then working hard is, is no problem. But I also think like, you know, I have plans. At 7 p. m. I'm off to meet a friend, like, I will feel a great friend and a great colleague if I actually log off and don't cancel those and have a wonderful evening and really listen to them and then I can log back in in the morning and think, God, I have a, had a lovely happy evening and now I'm even more ready to go, I think.

Yes. The myth of, not the myth, but the assumption that I'm just going to work until midnight and something good will come of it is not the risk you want to have. So trying to avoid that habit building as well. 

Jolie Downs: Oh, I think it's excellent advice. And this is actually, studies have been done on this. And, and not only is it.

Good for the work life, but for your mental health and all of that, it actually is good for your work too, because apparently when we do this and we turn [00:27:00] off and we go to the things, that's when we get a lot of the insights that will help us, with whatever projects are. So apparently we get a lot of insights, that move us forward in our work when we take the time off and give it a little bit of a break.

Isobel Petersen: And I think, maybe that was covered in one of the HBR idea cards. Are we talking about the same one? Might be, and going for a walk is another of my, a similar idea where you're kind of allowing yourself just to ruminate on a topic or a conversation. And maybe you are sending a message or a voice note to someone who can help you, but you're just not at your desk trying to just force yourself through something.

Jolie Downs: So, so our message to everyone, it's okay. 

Isobel Petersen: Okay. You can say, yeah, you can be a hard worker, but ask for help and slow it down. And it's all going to be okay. 

Jolie Downs: Yeah, exactly. Okay. So I love this question because, and I ask everybody it because I'm very passionate about the fact that we are being fed all the time without our permission, we are constantly [00:28:00] being fed information and absorbing information that's coming out at us.

So I'm. Love to proactively feed my mind and I love to hear what other people do to proactively feed theirs So is there anything that you've either read or watched or listened to that was a positive impact on your life that other people could benefit from reading watching listening themselves 

Isobel Petersen: Yes, I, so much, as you say, when are we not absorbing interesting and sometimes just fun content?

 But I think there are a few things that I have really tapped into. If I start talking about fiction books, we won't end, so just read fiction, because it is a good experience. Whatever you read it, I think armchair expert podcast, which is hosted, it's out of the States hosted by, , Dax Shepard and Monica Padman, who they've been doing it for six, seven years.

They interview all the big celeb names, as part of the kind of press trail, but they have a kind of sub series called experts on [00:29:00] experts where most of the guests. In long form interview, format, academics, scientists, psychologists, journalists, sports professionals, and coaches, and they've been going for six or seven years.

So dig into the archives and go on a long walk and just listen to a conversation with a psychologist talking about, someone who the interview called Gretchen Rubin about what happiness is, or Amanda Duckworth about. Perseverance and grit. I read her book, yes. Interesting. The other thing that I occasionally dip into is a bit of kind of poetry stuff, but I like, I saw a YouTube video of this American, this young person in America in New York, I think they are called Fanta Ballo, and they had a, just a recording on YouTube of this year, so it's available for everyone, and they had a poem called Redemption, and it was, pretty powerful stuff about their own journey and when you [00:30:00] watch something and you listen to someone talk about their journey, which has nothing to do with your journey or your life.

It's just kind of pretty mind blowing. I think when you feel that you can relate, there's a British spoken word artist as well called Kay Tempest, who is. Amazing on that stuff as well. 

Jolie Downs: Okay. Can you say that again? Kae Tempest? 

Isobel Petersen: Kae Tempest. Yeah. K. Okay. K A E and then her surname Tempest. And yeah, work related HBR idea cast.

I 

Jolie Downs: mean, great. I love, you know, I've heard of the armchair one, but I actually haven't listened to it. I love the subset. I'm fascinated. I'm actually, I'm, Check that out. Yes. All the other ones are new. I love it. I love being exposed to new things. So thank you. Learning 

Isobel Petersen: poetry via YouTube is a very exciting and entertaining rabbit hole, I find.

Jolie Downs: I actually haven't gone down that rabbit hole. I'm super curious. I'm a hundred percent looking up this redemption because I love a good poem that just says It just, you know, gives you those chills. It just kind of moves something inside of you. Yes. 

Isobel Petersen: Amazing. 

Jolie Downs: [00:31:00] This has been great. Thank you so much as well.

Before you go, I'm going to ask you one final question. Okay. Because I'm always curious. I feel like we're born with superpowers. We also develop superpowers as we grow. And I'm curious, what's your personal superpower? Whether you were born or something that you grew into, what would you say yours is? 

Isobel Petersen: God, there's an inherent discomfort in telling yourself that you're super at anything, isn't there?

I guess. It's so important to own. Okay. I'm going to own it. I think a superpower of mine is my emotional intelligence. 

Jolie Downs: Ooh, okay. Tell 

Isobel Petersen: me more. I think I, I love all things people as we've discussed over the past. Like being someone in the room who can figure out this is how this person is motivated or stressed and therefore I can support, tap into that, hopefully help them.

And [00:32:00] that person over there actually is really interesting, they should meet. So using emotional intelligence to hopefully make other people have, A good time in life, find what they're passionate about at work through coaching or help a friend out when they're struggling or, make someone laugh.

But I think emotional intelligence, I remember saying to a coach once, like, oh, well, it's really easy to understand what someone else is feeling. And she said, it's not for everyone. So maybe that is. Maybe what she was telling me is that that is my superpower. 

Jolie Downs: Yes, it's, I find emotional intelligence to be one of the more underrated, most powerful superpowers.

I mean, it is something that impacts life everywhere you go in a very positive way. And I'm curious because you mentioned reading fiction and, and I, I feel that my, my EQ is also one of my superpowers. And I feel that [00:33:00] a lot of it, it grows because of how much. I read. Do you feel that that impacts your own understanding of people as well?

Isobel Petersen: Yeah, that's a really cool way of looking at it. I think it does. I think it particularly, because it, it's a bit like going on a long walk or something. It kind of just slows you down. There are very few things in life that we can do where you cannot do another thing. So, walking is one, you could probably be listening to something, but broadly you have to look where you're going.

, you know, having a bath, another really good place to think and contemplate. And reading, you literally cannot do something else when you are reading. , cooking is another one of my favorites. And so they're all slightly different. I haven't cracked meditation properly and I think reading and cooking are maybe the two closest things where you're concentrating just enough , and you're absorbed just enough that you can Feel kind of the rest of the world quietening and then it opens your mind up So yeah, I [00:34:00] think I completely agree with that and I think particularly reading books where they are not about reading Me, a white woman in her thirties in a suburban setting.

So anything that is going to take me out of my, that kind of millennial female voice, I think is what I'm drawn to. I just read Demon Copperhead. by Barbara Kingsolver. Ooh, I haven't read that. I mean it's, it's, it's not a kind of relaxing, it's a work of literary brilliance. That one was amazing. , And Camilla Shamsi, who's a British, Um, also she has a few brilliant, brilliant books about the kind of British, Central Asian, Muslim, , Christian, political, social, it's really kind of how all of those things intersect, really, really brilliant stuff.

Jolie Downs: Ooh, I'll check that out. Interesting. I agree. Reading books about different, anything that's very different from your own experiences, it just, it just adds to your own [00:35:00] understanding and ability to, to put yourself in other people's shoes, you know, I mean, it's just, it's very important. You know, before we go, I actually want to say something because you made a comment about meditation and, now I struggled with meditation myself for, for a very long time.

Very passionate that everyone should try to meditate and I say this because I Always thought of meditation is simply that the quieting of the mind the breathing like just sitting very still and I've realized that there Are so many different kinds of meditation that you can do and you don't have to subscribe to one so I only bring this up because I one of my favorite ways of meditating is actually getting a guided meditation.

So it's something where someone's talking you through visualizing this experience essentially. And I like to go for a walk. I'll go for a walk and I'll listen to this guided meditation and it can be very profound and it's very helpful. So for people who might struggle with the being, you know, quieting of the mind, just breathing, what have you try [00:36:00] guided meditation, go for a walk.

Isobel Petersen: Thank you so much for that. We actually in, I love that. And actually we have. In our Milltown London office, I think it existed on San Francisco and we've just opened in a kind of bigger and brighter office in New York as well. We have a whole, everyone brings in. There's a kind of library basically. So it's as well, our office managers, choose wonderful things.

And if we ever have speakers, we'll, we'll get some copies of their books as well. But generally it's also encouraged firmly for people just to bring in books and maybe go and have a nice cup of tea with a colleague and sit in that nice corner and walk with a colleague. It's so, so great. So combining thoughtfulness and walking and different versions of meditation in the workplace, is I think a kind of.

Cool thing for companies, whatever aligns to a company set of values, like finding something out. And our, one of our co founders is very kind of speaks very thoughtfully about the power of meditation as well, which I think is a great thing. So I will take your and his advice and give it a go. 

Jolie Downs: And I love that.

I [00:37:00] love that Milltown does that. 

Isobel Petersen: I mean, 

Jolie Downs: give me a room like that where I can go connect with some people. 

Isobel Petersen: It's great. Yep. Without a screen and without a table in front of you. 

Jolie Downs: Yes, that sounds great. Isobel, thank you so much for joining me on the Career Wanderlust podcast. This has been wonderful. It's been so fruitful with all kinds of golden nuggets.

I appreciate your time. 

Isobel Petersen: Well, I really appreciate you having me. Thank you so much. And, for getting a UK voice. In into your American audiences is so I hope to spread the word. 

Jolie Downs: Exactly. We need more voices, , so 

Isobel Petersen: thank 

Jolie Downs: you. Thank 

Isobel Petersen: you. 

Jolie Downs: Thank you for joining us on the Career Wanderlust podcast. If you find value in learning from others, give us a like and subscribe.

If you're looking to grow your communications, marketing, public relations. or sales and biz dev team with the best talent and quickly. Check us out at paradigmstaffing. com and submit a request. [00:38:00] We are wishing you a most successful and fulfilling career until next time.