Angela Griffo Transcript
[00:00:00] Jolie Downs: Welcome to the Career Wanderlust podcast. Your compass for new career horizons. Today, we are talking with Angela Griffo. Angela is an accomplished and driven public relations and communications professional, experienced with both agency and corporate executive level roles. Angela excels at leading high profile technology companies through all of their communications needs. After a successful agency career leading technology teams as a senior vice president with Tenfold, Angela made the move to corporate and is now the vice president of corporate communications at Socure, a leader in identity fraud prevention.
[00:00:39] And I'm really excited to learn more. Angela, thank you for joining us on the Career Wonderlust podcast. How happy to be here. I'm happy to have you here. I would love to know, Angela, you've had a very successful career throughout both sides of communications. Could you tell us what you feel has been some of the best career advice that you've gotten? Or a career belief that has helped carry you through, and how has it helped?
[00:01:04] Angela Griffo: I was lucky enough to get great advice very early in my career on the agency side, and I had a manager tell me once: "Look at the job description above yours and act as if you are that role." Honestly, that was the best advice because you're normally going to do your day to day anyway. But if you're really looking what stretch looks like, go to that one or two above you.
[00:01:28] And honestly, throughout my career, I've been promoted the fastest of anybody in both agencies that I worked with at the time. And I really credit that and I continue to give that advice to young professionals.
[00:01:42] Jolie Downs: That's fantastic. Act as if. So would you do that? So you would go and take a look at the job descriptions and then would you ask for those responsibilities or would you slowly start to like take things on yourself or, a little of
[00:01:55] Angela Griffo: both?
[00:01:56] Great question. Really both. Honestly you can insert yourselves, insert yourself in areas where you wouldn't otherwise or might ask for that opportunity like, Hey, can I help run that project? But sort of, it can really happens organically because the roles, at least within PR, they're not hugely different.
[00:02:16] It's not like going from a VP of comms to CMO. They're just degrees of promotions. It's definitely a combination and you really have those conversations regularly with your manager saying, Look, I feel like I'm almost here. If you can give me the opportunity to these couple more things, that really helped me in my growth path here as an employee.
[00:02:43] And I think any good manager is going to recognize that as a positive, that they want their staff to be motivated and to continue to grow and push themselves.
[00:02:54] Jolie Downs: I bet that is what is very appealing to someone on your team. If I had an employee who was asking for more, if you have a team of people and something's coming up and you have one person who keeps asking for more, who keeps embodying higher level responsibilities, who keeps taking things off your plate, right?
[00:03:13] Recognizing those things. That's going to be the natural person when you have, a promotion available. That will be the natural person because it's really about making the decision easier for the hiring manager, right? You're just showing them essentially. Look, I'm ready for this.
[00:03:27] I want this. And they need to know that in order to feel good about moving forward.
[00:03:32] Angela Griffo: You can't forget your day to day. So you have to get on the bus, and not let the wheels go off the bus because you're trying to stretch yourself. So it really proves that you can straddle both levels and you have to be able to do them both successfully.
[00:03:48] And then when I can see that you're doing your day job great, plus you're adding more to your plate and more responsibility and thinking bigger, then I'm feeling very confident that you're going to be successful in that next level.
[00:04:02] Jolie Downs: Yeah, that's fantastic. Really good advice. And what about a story?
[00:04:05] Cause I love stories. I feel like we can learn so much, from any kind of story really. Everyone has a nice selection. I'm curious if there's one that sticks out to you that was impactful to you. It was something that happened to you that you learned from and hearing that story other people can learn something, too.
[00:04:24] Angela Griffo: Sure, I think you know on the agency side when you work across so many different technologies and different personalities I mean I worked with one and two and three times CEOs that had bought and sold companies at various levels: MBAs, engineers from very advanced degrees from India and Israel.
[00:04:49] You learn to work with a lot of different cultures. And to be honest, a lot of males in my role and being comfortable and having difficult conversations really became sort of my jam. I guess everyone was like, Angela, you go talk to 'em. And, it wasn't comfortable always. Trust me, I've had some real just some very prickly pairs and they could be women too. There's a lot of women in power that not necessarily gonna be super friendly to you. They're gonna challenge you. Remember being on the agency side, they're paying you a lot of money to give them results and give them answers. Maybe they want to hear, but I need to give you answers that you don't want to hear. I was lucky enough to have an empathy coach that I worked with for five years and we would literally role play before I would go into these conversations because he would play whoever I was having to deal with that particular week.
[00:05:48] And we would say, you really have to meet that person where they are, you have to understand like their motivations as well as yours and how to be firm yet understanding where they're coming from. That might sound easy, but it's actually very difficult when you're in like a stressful situation, especially trying to negotiate money or contracts or deals. I would say that wasn't a strong suit of mine. You don't go to college to learn that. I've probably had maybe not a hundred, but close to a hundred of those conversations throughout my 13 years at my last agency in tech and somewhat in my prior agency before that but I was a lot more junior.
[00:06:36] Then I had to teach my staff, I couldn't always be the one. So I had to empower my directors and the people underneath me. Look, you can do this too. Let's role play, I'll do this with you and you be that person. And I'll be that person and you be you and kind of think about how you want to frame the conversation so it's, you're getting your point across, but you're not, being offensive.
[00:07:02] I think it's very easy to come across as too direct. I think being direct is another superpower I've been told that I have, I'm very honest. And a lot of people are not comfortable being honest, they're not comfortable telling you the truth. So that's a combination of like empathy and that. I was told I don't need a decoder ring to know what you're thinking Angela. That goes for your staff, that goes for your clients, that goes for whomever you're working with. It is a lot. People just aren't always comfortable saying the elephant in the room. And I think you don't get anything done if you're just dancing around, whatever sort of uncomfortable situation that people are
[00:07:46] Jolie Downs: avoiding talking about.
[00:07:48] What do you think is the most important thing to take into account when you are going into a difficult conversation like one of these?
[00:07:55] Angela Griffo: I think one of the sayings that I love is there's your story, there's my story and there's our story. So if I understand what your story is, at least going into it.
[00:08:06] I know you're a stressed out founder. You've got VCs breathing down your neck. You have a bunch of sales that you need to make. Maybe the product market fit isn't there, like you're under all kinds of pressures. Here I am, trying to do a good job for you in PR, you're not listening, you don't have the budget to do what you want to do.
[00:08:25] And we have to decide, then you come at it saying "Hey, I understand you're underneath a whole lot of pressure. Can we talk about what some of the alternatives are to help me meet your PR goals?" And you make it like, it becomes our story. It's not just me like you're not listening to me.
[00:08:43] And why aren't you doing what I'm asking you to do. It's that mother may I, it's really coming at it very maturely. And that does in the moment, you might only have 10, 15 minutes with this person. You've got to get it, you've got to get it across quickly. So I think that would be the advice I would give to anybody, whether it's your staff, whether it's a client, whether it's your boss, whomever. That is the best way to approach any difficult conversation.
[00:09:15] Jolie Downs: Yeah, no, absolutely. In life and career, I love this advice. I think it's very powerful. And, I would imagine that you use that same tactic, just dealing with difficult people because you mentioned that you've dealt you've had to learn how to deal with difficult people. I'm curious if you have any other tips around just how to effectively deal with difficult people because we all find ourselves in that position.
[00:09:41] Angela Griffo: I go back to empathy. You have to meet that person where they are. And like I had, someone here that I worked with and she was always super stressed out and I can't take a vacation. And then she just, and it was just like, Hey, I realize you haven't taken a vacation in a long time. I realize you're working a million hours a week. If I could just get you, can we just agree that maybe you can just do this, these couple of things by next Tuesday and I can help you in the meantime. Not being like accusatory of this person. I don't know what people's personal circumstances are, nobody does. And you can't pretend that you do. So you have to just, you notice things, "I noticed that you've been working a lot of hours and you're been very stressed out that's terrible. Let me see how I can help you." You've got to come with an olive branch I guess is the best advice. That you're not just coming at that person, but you're sort of recognizing where they are and where their challenges are. And then they're going to be way more receptive.
[00:10:47] Jolie Downs: I like that I noticed that's, something I feel like you can use with a lot of things.
[00:10:55] Angela Griffo: Do I have permission to give you feedback? I had a lady, one client, she was just a terror and I was like, I was very nervous. And I would honestly say potentially scared to give her feedback because I didn't know how she would react to it.
[00:11:10] She was very volatile and just asking for permission when that person knows and they could say no. But I've never had somebody say no. That's another good wedge when you know you have to tell them something they don't want to hear, but at least if you prepare them for it, they'll be a lot more receptive.
[00:11:29] Jolie Downs: I love that. I'm absolutely putting that in my pocket as well. Thank you. There's a couple of really good ones that I haven't been using, I'm adding to my toolbox. Angela, I happen to know that you are an amazing leader and mentor and manager as being a former hiring manager that I've worked with. I have heard wonderful things about your leadership.
[00:11:51] Is there anything that you found is vital or important to being a mentor, manager that really helps inspire people?
[00:12:03] Angela Griffo: I've heard this through different speakers and, my own experience that the relationship with your employee, you can't be their friend. I did learn my lesson. I had my own office, I think I personally got too close to the staff. And so there is a difference between trying to be someone's best friend, but actually genuinely caring about them as a person. And so I'm never in a one on one where I'm not asking, how's your wife? In fact, my DR right now, he's having a lot of trouble with his toilet.
[00:12:35] It keeps breaking and I keep asking him, how's it going with the toilet? You mean like you remember, oh, it's his wife's birthday or, how did that vacation go? Or what are you guys planning this weekend? I see managers fall down where they're just like, what are you working on? Where are you on your OKRs? Or what happened with this project?
[00:12:56] You, have to be genuinely interested in what that person does outside of work because that's what motivates them. You could have someone that's a marathon runner and you need to make sure. You know what? They're going to tell me I'm training for a marathon.
[00:13:09] So let's figure out how we can make that time work into your schedule so it's not a conflict. Yet, you're still able to get your work done. Like, if you aren't having those, that level of conversation with your staff, I think you're really missing out. And it's just going to become very transactional relationship.
[00:13:27] So I'm always remembering how's your dog or, Oh my gosh, how was your three year old's birthday? I've grown kids now so I can live vicariously now through my staff as their little two year olds are turning three and getting potty trained. So it's just because I've gone through that before, I appreciate. Or gosh, my kid's sick, like I gotta go. Family first, like no matter what, you've got to take care of your sick child or your dog or whomever it is, I am very sympathetic to that, to anybody's situation. And I think that, unfortunately I don't think a lot of managers are, and it becomes like I said, just very drill sergeant.
[00:14:12] Jolie Downs: Yeah, it makes all the difference too. It really does. A happy team is a productive, successful team that celebrate their wins.
[00:14:23] Angela Griffo: That's another, celebrate the wins. I think my number one piece of advice is give feedback in the moment. Don't wait two weeks after they made the mistake or you were like, oh my goodness, what the heck.
[00:14:36] Do it like as soon as possible, the better. And same goes for the win, you shouldn't celebrate something great somebody did two weeks later. I always recommend giving feedback as close to real time as you can.
[00:14:51] Jolie Downs: I like that advice. Cause a lot of times we'll celebrate something that happened in our team meetings, right?
[00:14:56] That happened maybe the week before, what have you. But you're right. We need to celebrate that day when it happened. I like that better.
[00:15:03] Angela Griffo: You're like, everyone forgets. Oh, that was last month. I've done three new great things in the meantime, then it diminishes that.
[00:15:10] Jolie Downs: No, it does happen. It'll be like at the end of the meeting. Oh wait, we didn't celebrate this. And it's this afterthought, rather than being this beautiful, let's celebrate. I'm taking that one too. That's really good. That's what I love about these conversations, a lot of times it's very simple things that we're just not thinking about or considering or you just haven't learned really. Having a conversation with someone, and sharing that conversation can open up avenues to so many other people.
[00:15:36] Angela Griffo: I really hate that "I'm too busy." "I have too many meetings." That's on you. You made your schedule, you accepted that meeting, you decided to not make time for your staff and now you're paying for it.
[00:15:49] Jolie Downs: Yeah.
[00:15:50] Angela Griffo: Or, you did make time and you're reaping the rewards.
[00:15:53] Jolie Downs: True story. Both counts. Yeah. So, I would love to know, cause I talk about this in each episode.
[00:16:00] We are being bombarded all the time with information, media. It's being fed at us all the time. So I really love to proactively feed the mind. I'm curious if there's something that you have either read, watched, or listened to that had a positive impact on your life that you think others could benefit from as well.
[00:16:20] Angela Griffo: A hundred percent. Making the switch from 20 years of agency going in house, later in my career, wasn't easy. Through a family friend got introduced to a woman named Mary Morrissey. I don't know her personally, but her work, she does this thing called, A Dream Builder Program.
[00:16:42] And if you Google her, she's got tons of videos and podcasts. I actually went through like a six week course, that I purchased, but that was weekly homework, podcasts. It takes you through all levels, whether from your past, from your parents, from your previous relationships. The premise is do something that you love. What would you really love to do that you've for whatever reason haven't done, whether it's travel or moving to a new city or, I don't know, having children, whatever it might be.
[00:17:18] And it's funny, it seems like such a simple concept, but I think that we get caught inertia. It takes over. I think about this house, I'm like, I've been in this house, when there were five of us, two of my kids are gone now. I have way more room than I need, I have way more things. They left half their stuff here and moved out. And I'm like, I got to get out of here. You tell my husband, let's get going. But the emotions tied to this house, like he's more tied to it than I am. But if I really think about what's the life that I would love, I want to downsize. There's several things that would make a difference and so going through that process was really, powerful. It gave me clarity about for sure the role that I was looking for next. And I continue to lean on that when there's either big decisions that I need to make, or I feel like I'm getting stuck, hearken back to, am I living the life that I would love?
[00:18:15] Because if you aren't.
[00:18:17] Jolie Downs: Life
[00:18:18] Angela Griffo: is short.
[00:18:19] Jolie Downs: Yeah, what are you doing? I love this so much. I think it's incredibly important because you're right. I don't want to say get stuck, but we're on a path, right? And life just comes at you. And I find that people especially as they get going just start to react, right?
[00:18:37] Cause there's so much happening so there is so much reaction and then life becomes about that reaction. And a lot of people aren't thinking about, okay, am I really happy? Is this what I really want to be doing? Is this where I really want to be? What would make me really happy? What one little thing I could changed that would make me just that little bit of happier? What do I love to do? Am I doing those things? And so, I love this because doing that deep dive and also doing that deep dive into yourself and then looking at your past with your family and their relationships and working through some of the things that maybe have been holding you back that you're not fully realizing also very powerful.
[00:19:12] So this whole process is very beautiful and, I appreciate you sharing a resource that people can go find.
[00:19:20] Angela Griffo: I think at the time I was doing that, my mother-in-law passed away from pancreatic cancer as well very suddenly. And I've been with my husband for 30 plus years.
[00:19:30] This was a very traumatic, as you can imagine, experience for our family. But when we went into the house and we saw she didn't have a will. She didn't have any plan for what we should do in her passing, like going through her things. It throws you forward. Oh my goodness, now's the time to figure this out. Not when I'm 70 or 60 or God forbid, I get an illness that takes my life prematurely. I hope that your listeners or whoever's listening to this now really takes that to heart because you realize time is very fleeting and no matter what job you have or whatever you're doing, it could go.
[00:20:21] You hope you don't have any regrets. I think that again is a cliche, but it's also very true.
[00:20:25] Jolie Downs: So true. So true. I completely agree. I think that process that you went through, that going through and asking yourself all of those questions as far as, what do I love? Is this what I want to be doing? What, would my ideal life look like? All of these things, I think we should be doing that every year. Honestly, we should be doing it every year, always continuously asking ourselves those questions and reevaluating because we're always changing too.
[00:20:48] Angela Griffo: Yeah, hundred percent.
[00:20:50] Jolie Downs: That's how we make sure we don't get stuck, and that we are continuously bringing that joy and life into our lives. Yeah. You nailed it. Fantastic advice. I love it. This has been great, Angela. Before you go, just one final question that I love to ask, I feel we're all born with some superpowers.
[00:21:07] But then I also feel that we develop superpowers over time. What do you feel is one of your personal superpowers you've developed over time and how has it benefited you?
[00:21:16] Angela Griffo: I think, I sort of hearken back to empathy and connecting with people. I think I have, even though it's funny, I'm actually pretty shy.
[00:21:25] If I'm at a party, I'm not going to run up to you and I don't know you and be like, "Oh, what's your name? I'm Angela. What do you do?" I'm not that person. I wish I were actually. But when I am in a relationship with a peer or a manager or a client or a CEO, whoever it is, I feel like I have a way to connect with people because I think relationships are just that. They aren't transactional, they aren't just get what you need out of that conversation and bail. The empathy is a big piece of it. Connecting with people and reaching them where they are and asking questions about, do you watch football?
[00:22:06] I found it's just the smallest things. But when I used to be on the agency side, I have to build relationships with all these reporters from Wall Street Journal and Bloomberg. I could tell you everybody, their kids names, what baseball teams they loved, what football teams they love.
[00:22:22] So when they would win, if their team would win, I'd be like, yay. Go Yankees! Just out of the blue, instead of only pitching them when I needed something or only asking them for something when I needed something. I found that's totally paid off because I treat everybody like that and you never know when you're going to need a favor.
[00:22:40] People come to me for favors all the time. I'm of course, the first one. You need a reference, you need a letter, you need a whatever opinion I'll give it to you. It just works both ways and having really good friends, still with the gal that gave me that advice, that manager, cause she lives close by me.
[00:22:59] So, like you, you and I have known each other a long time. We don't talk every day, but when we do, it's like old homely, right? We get along. That's how I really try to have all my relationships be like time stood still. It was like, Oh my gosh, how are you Jolie? How are the kids or whatever it is. That's just how I am. I guess I'm fortunate that way that I've been able to build those relationships. That's very natural for me.
[00:23:26] Jolie Downs: I love taking it to the interest level because people will give advice to ask about family or stuff, but I love the interest level to like sports or you mentioned someone with a marathon. Maybe one of your people you work with loves marathons. So find out those things and checking in on those.
[00:23:44] Angela Griffo: You hear about this race or, how's your training going? Again, it's checking in those moments when they don't expect you to, and it's not to be like staged, that's just who I am. That's how I think. As much as that feels natural for people, I would recommend it.
[00:24:04] Jolie Downs: I love it. Before I let you go, because I like to ask this question actually. Are there certain questions that you ask that help open people up or that you find work really well with helping build connections?
[00:24:17] Angela Griffo: That's a good one. I think. I always have been told to ask, do you have a family?
[00:24:23] Never assume somebody's married. Never assume someone has a husband or a wife or whatever their orientation is. So I always start with, do you have a family? And it really just goes from there. And then they'll say, Oh yeah, I have this. I'm really close to my sister and we do blah, blah, blah. Or. And then you just follow that narrative, right?
[00:24:43] Oh, we love going to travel. What trips do you have planned next? When are you going? Oh, why'd you choose that? You follow the thread that they're comfortable cause not everybody's comfortable talking about whatever their relationships are. But I find it's funny, people are very, at least in my experience, pretty transparent. Once you just ask one or two questions, they just start gushing. Then of course, if they have kids, like that's the easiest way in the world because everybody loves their kids and just loves to talk about them. Oh my gosh, do they play sports or they dance or I don't know, are they a great spellers?
[00:25:20] You can't assume everyone's a sports star. You just ask questions that elicit information about that. What that person likes to do and how they spend their time. And it actually becomes actually super, super easy, even for young people that don't have kids or aren't married yet.
[00:25:40] You'll hear them say Oh, I'm really close to my Dad or I really always wanted to go to Africa. I had one guy, when he was saving to go to Europe with his girlfriend and that's what they were doing and they had their whole agenda. It doesn't matter if you're young or older, anywhere in between. People are always, they have a life outside of
[00:25:59] Jolie Downs: work, turns out, thank goodness.
[00:26:02] And that's a nice safe question too. I love that. One that opens people up. I think that's fantastic. Thank you for sharing.
[00:26:08] Angela Griffo: So fun, Jolie. Love you to death, girl. You have done a lot of the work that you're doing on your podcast and I'm happy to be a part of it. And hopefully whoever listens to this gets something out of it.
[00:26:21] That helps.
[00:26:23] So many golden nuggets. Thank you so much for joining us, Angela. I really appreciate it. Sounds good. Thanks, Jolie.
[00:26:30] Jolie Downs: Thank you for joining us on the Career Wanderlust Podcast. If you find value in learning from others, give us a like and subscribe. If you're looking to grow your communications, marketing, public relations, or sales and biz dev team with the best talent and quickly, check us out at ParadigmStaffing. com and submit a request.
[00:26:54] We are wishing you a most successful and fulfilling career. Until next time.